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41

I wouldn’t feel so frustrated if there was more discussion around my points instead of my personality.

Imagine if there were a survey like this, where the poster tried to ask on a programming forum whether you are white, or whether you are male. I would almost immediately feel uncomfortable, and I find it hard to imagine that you wouldn’t. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to feel uncomfortable about that. Since I can understand why someone would be uncomfortable facing such a post, I think, for the sake of equality, it’s best if any similar surveys about gender and sexual orientation don’t appear at all.

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42

this is unbelievable

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43

Point I was trying to make, you were attacked prior to explaining your reasons. You just said that you felt uncomfortable by the post. I’m not diving any deeper than that. “What if-s” and other things. You said how you feel, and another person attacked you for it. I mean, I saw it as an attack towards you.

44

noone is forcing you to answer. you are not being surveyed by this thread. in fact, this is not a thread for you. you are not only not required to identify yourself here, you are not even welcome

to be clear, i mean this to all men in general. hello to everyone else

this is a complete failure of the social premise because it got hyper scrutinised by the group it was least meant for, what am i reading?!

edit: these men’s-rights-activist style responses are as if participation in this thread has suddenly become a requirement before unlocking the rest of ziggit, like as if we are requiring all cis men to line up against a wall and be scrutinised here. NO. you aren’t being surveyed. this is not a thread about men. this was meant for (trans) women

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45

I can understand where you are coming from, but the obvious difference is, that white cis men have no reason to feel alone in here, so it is not equal to begin with.

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46

Thank you!

47

With that logic, you can drop-kick a random child and with zero consequences because you were just expressing your freedom.

No one is stopping you from expressing your opinion, rather we are responding to the opinion you already expressed, this is just communication.

Your opinion is that we should just let you walk over us, idk why you think we would be ok with that.

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48

Yea you can. No one is stopping you if you want to do it. I don’t want to do it. I don’t want to hurt another human intentionally. Ever. Consequences will happen for it, there is no 0 consequences about anything in life. There is always some sort of reaction to action some action

49

misogynists have to come up with inane hypotheticals which ARE NOT and systematically WILL NOT happen in any ziggit thread anywhere in this group, to excuse the real action they are CURRENTLY actually doing (in a thread called Women and Trans Members!!)

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50

I don’t want to walk over you. I never said that. What made you think that from my responses?

51

Then stop defending people who ARE HURTING US. Our existence here, and anywhere else, has ZERO impact on you and the people you are defending.

Y’all are choosing to be offended by our existence. We just want to exist the same as any other. This thread is an example that we still don’t have that basic human right.

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52

you are talking over women & nbs in this thread right now. stop replying. you do not have to reply to this one thread. you are welcome in every other thread. just allow there to be one thread for women, but without this derailing scrutiny

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53

How was the person hurting you by telling their feeling that they are uncomfortable with the topic? How can other person’s own feeling hurt you?

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54

I can understand this way of thinking, but I’d rather think about things in a completely equal way.

Inequality can exist in a variety of complex forms. Even though I’m not white, I still feel sympathetic towards what Henry Nowak went through. What makes me even more uneasy is that incidents like this seem to bring some racist feelings back.

I’ve been thinking, if society could treat everything with true equality, without giving worse or better treatment just because something is a minority, and could truly not care at all about whether a person’s characteristic is a minority, just handle things fairly, it could avoid hatred.

But a deeper discussion probably isn’t something this programming forum is meant for.

55

Let’s calm down, @npc1054657282 your point has been validated before, but this is not the place to express it, because really think about it, if this is a topic in a general public space, and people are saying: “Hey, fellow people with X thing in common, wanna meet more” then we get a clear premise, “Hi, I am X with Y, and I do Z things”.

@lufe I would say that’s falacius, they also need community, is just that they are not in question in this thread so there is no reason to bring them up outside the oppresive nature of messages trying to police something that shouldn’t have irked this kind of conversation.

@miagi Your point is correct in a way that is not useful, they are themselves, if they feel as if they were wronged, this is a public space and they can talk for themselves, this is not injustice, is literally just: “this post was not meant for you” andrew stepped in as a moderator, and said what he said because he understand this question was for another group.

If someone sees it as an attack on themselves, sit down, think why it was said, and then if you are indeed still feeling attacked after deeply reflecting why it was said. please, you can express yourself, but hopefully not in the thread that has somehow devolved into constant arguing about something simple.

I will spell it out for y’all. You all are using protection to walk over the identities and the whole persona of multiple people. This is a thread with a targeted public, and outsiders of said public are interventing into making it about not the target public.

“But I want to participate” Then create your own post, is a public space. No one is policing you about it. We are saying this thread is about an specific group wanting to meet more.

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56

I’m replying only to messages directed at me. If that is what you all mean by “walking over” Sorry, I haven’t understood the meaning when you reply to, is “walking over”. I have a right to respond to messages directed at me, don’t I?

57

“I understand that it is not equal, but I want to pretend that it is equal and I am willing to do that at the expense of others”
- npc 2026

Society is not equal, the experiences on ziggit and in this thread are not equal. I would love if it were equal, but it is not. I have to live that reality, stop trying to pretend I am not.

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58

this is a social place. we exist as words on the internet here. ‘walking over’ is meant to be interpreted as a synonym of ‘talking over’. obviously not with your real feet. but anyway the problem is this was meant to be started as a safe place, not a men’s-rights-activist debate club

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59

TL;DR

Everyone has the right to their feelings, but there are boundaries to the right to express said feelings.

If you feel uncomfortable to read a topic on a public forum then just don’t read it and move on.

Let me explain it this way:

Imagine someone asking on this forum:
“Need help to reimplement this perl program in zig”, and people answered.
“I don’t like perl”, to which they get the answer,
“No need to state that you don’t like perl, just move on.”

Would you really feel the need to state, that they have the right to their feelings?

(Besides, I think this started as a mixup. You’re post was quoted in a reply to someone else.)

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60

this thread is not called Debate Feminism, it is Women & Trans Members

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