(post deleted by author)
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I donât expect people to say anything they arenât comfortable with, but I feel lonely not saying anything
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Hereâs my interpretation of this:
- OP takes a small social risk to identify as a woman
- You reply with something vaguely negative, that leaves enough ambiguity to cover your ass while still producing an emotional effect that pushes OP away
This is an anti social thing to do. I personally want to interact with more women in the tech-related spaces that I inhabit. Iâm certain that many people feel the same way I do. And itâs people like you doing shit like this preventing that from happening.
I think you should apologize. I donât want to hear any excuses. If you canât read the room then do some self-reflecting, think harder, and try again.
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Unrelated
[quote="lukeflo, post:2, topic:16088"] However, since IT/coding/âcomputer nerdy stuffâ is a domain very likely (still) to a big amount a domain publicly represented by (white?) cis-men, it would be very understandable if people not belonging to this group donât want to identify themselves in public. Unfortunately, the web, no most of our societies are still very biased regarding those things. [/quote]Even @andrewrk post wasnât a reply to my comment, I also thought about what I posted.
It might be totally unnecessary and kind of insensitive that I felt somehow commited to express my awareness regarding those topics. We very likely donât need more privileged male people to mansplain their awareness for such things. Thus, I want to apologize if anybody felt somehow insulted due to my comment.
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Thanks everyone (especially @andrewrk), I appreciate the discussion and people chiming in, but it feels like my initial question is a bit lost here 
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Compared to surveys about native language, surveys about gender and sexual orientation do feel a bit strange to me.
I can understand the value of surveying native languages in a programming community. Community communication itself relies on some natural language, and programming is a text-based job, so a workerâs native language can influence their programming style, which makes sense.
Other surveys, like those on culture or politics, used to make me uncomfortable, but ever since Linux excluded Russian developers, even though I donât agree with it personally, I can somewhat understand that the community might inevitably be influenced by political factors, after all, itâs about supply chain security.
But Iâm still not really sure why we need to survey gender and sexual orientation. I donât believe a personâs gender or sexual orientation has anything to do with programming communication. Although I have heard some not-so-serious jokes, like saying transgender people are better at programming skills. But seriously, I donât want anyone to think that gender or sexual orientation can positively or negatively affect your abilities. On the other hand, pessimistically speaking, I think the best way to avoid any possible discrimination (whether itâs discrimination against men or women, or against cisgender or transgender people) is to protect yourself and not disclose information thatâs unrelated to programming.
I think the discussion environment on the internet is really valuable. In real life, communication between people of different genders and sexual orientations can be blocked at multiple levels because of this known information. Many times, our conversations could have been totally open. But, for example, imagine youâre a woman: can you casually talk with a cisgender man or a transgender woman in real life without any reservations? You might worry about unintentionally giving off extra sexual meanings.
So I think online, hiding these irrelevant personal traits is actually very valuable because it allows us to communicate more freely.
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Or maybe we shouldnât read so much into stuff.
OP says âhey, any other woman / trans around?â. If someone wants to come and say âhey, me tooâ, whatâs the big deal?
If they donât want to say anything, nobody is forcing them.
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What might make me sensitive is that with any kind of gender inequality, we canât just assume that everyone in the community is friendly. There might be some unfriendly members who silently, because of the gender exposed by this topic, reinforce stereotypes about certain members, and then discuss things later with some biasâand they would never admit that their unfriendly attitude comes from gender. So, no one even realizes that this attitude is just because a memberâs gender or sexual orientation was revealed, which could totally have been avoided!
Or, the reverse, just because some members have the same sexual orientation as themselves, they might develop a certain positive bias and end up agreeing with someone on programming topics more because of that rather than the actual ideas. To me, thatâs still inappropriate.
People like you are also part of the problem.
It is absolutely absurd to suggest that we hide ourselves because there might be bad people who do bad things, this is just accepting and allowing them into this space, which intern makes this space unsafe. If you want it to be safe for us, like you try to imply, then you would defend us instead of them.
And it is even more mindbogglingly absurd to suggest we would be biased regarding a programming topic because of similar identities. This tells me that you dont know trans people, and are just parroting bigotry!
I get the impression you are just uncomfortable with something you donât understand, and are both justifying that to your self, and pushing us away so you can be comfortable again.
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Alternately, we can deal with the unfriendly people when they show up and instead start with a hearty welcome when people introduce themselves!
I was almost going to say that maybe âMeetâ would be a better place to put it than âSite Feedbackâ but then I remembered Meet might be specifically for in-person meetups? Well whatever works.
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You donât have to be comfortable, it has nothing to do with you, stop inserting yourself into this topic.
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too late 
I didnât ask you to go back in time and stop your self,
I asked you to stop yourself now.
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adding to this;
This topic is no different from asking if anyone here speaks [language], or is in [area].
This is a place of community, it is normal to look for people you can more easily connect with.
If you are not what they are looking for, and have nothing meaningful to add, dont engage.
And âbeing uncomfortableâ is not a meaningful contribution, you would not behave the same in the aforementioned [language] or [area] topics, at least I sincerely hope you wouldnât.
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Sucks that this has devolved, at the very least it was only a few people, and they were quite tame.
Letâs try to get it back on track!
I am trans nonbinary something, it/she/they <3. I can tell you that there is a sizeable amount of trans and/or women ziguanas, idk about ziggit specifically.
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I can understand this desire to show off oneâs personal actions, though I think itâs inappropriate for a programming forum overall, but this accusation is a bit too much, and I donât want to accept it.
Overall, the real-life environment Iâm in is a chaotic and toxic society where people of different genders and sexual orientations team up against each other, attacking one another, men and women attack each other, cisgender and transgender people attack each other⌠I hope programming forums can avoid seeing these things because they have nothing to do with programming⌠Even though they might seem friendly right now, based on my experiences in society, Iâm worried about the hidden malice behind them.
In the society I live in, the reality is the opposite: people actively show off their gender and sexual orientation, and based on that, they form cliques and attack each other⌠I really wish everyone could just be completely indifferent to their own identity, at least on programming forums, because thereâs really no reason for it.
I agree with this point. Exposing your own culture and native language can carry the same risks. The difference with gender issues is just that, in programming discussions on forums, you might not be able to avoid revealing them if you want to clearly express your intentions; itâs a trade-off you have to weigh. But when it comes to gender issues, I think exposing them has only downsides and no benefits.
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Guys itâs not hard, they just want to find people alike. So if youâre not concerned, just pass on. Responses like these are the reasons we still need safe spaces and posts like theses to feel recognised
(Didnât meant to answer specifically to you but I donât know how to revert responding to you)
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Thank you for stating clearly that you consider queer people fighting for their own rights as an attack.
Because the only thing it attacks is inequality, you are upset that a minority wants the same privileges in life you enjoy.
You contradict yourself, by trying to play the part of peace, while suggesting we suppress ourselves on behalf of the bigots.
If you truly want the fighting to end, then support us, because the fighting will never end while the oppressed people still exist, and there is no way to eradicate us.
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Sorry, your comment was a bit excessive for this forum, and I also feel uncomfortable with the fact that my personal identity is being speculated about.
The toxic online society Iâm in is more like a âdark forestâ; no matter your gender or sexual orientation, as long as itâs revealed under certain conditions, youâre very likely to be privately abused in an organized way. But if you keep it secret, you can interact online more safely. Unfortunately, Iâve also seen some people who were abused turn to other extreme online groups, which makes things even worse. I think that at least online, as long as you donât expose your identity, everything is equal, and no one would assume you are any particular identity.
That said, I wonât be replying on this topic anymore.
Even though I donât want to respond, I still canât really understand this accusation.
After reflecting, the reason my attitude was seen as âattackâ might be because I placed my opposing opinion under a post consulting women and transgender groups.
However, even in other possible posts, like collecting feedback from men/cisgender groups, I donât think I would have a different attitude, and I feel my attitude should be easier to understand. Can you imagine if there was a post asking âAre you White?â or âAre you male?â People would worry that the person running the survey might be biased against those who donât identify that way. With an attitude of equality, the same opinion should apply in reverse as well.
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I am sorry youâve had bad experiences, but it is not an excuse to attack us.
You donât get to cry about speculation on your identity while attacking our identities.
You clearly think you are somehow protecting us/this community, But you really are not, I donât know how many more ways I have to explain to you how horrible you are being to people who were just trying to find some community.
This is an opportunity for you to contribute to making a better, safer, community. But you are doing the exact opposite, if your opinion prevails here, we will only have another of those toxic communities you complain about.
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