Actually not yet sadly, but I love it. I am a looong time windows user, lazy to switch to linux. I have just added a second drive tom PC where I am preparing the env to move from windows (wanted to do so after win7-win10 … and now still there on win11 … 
).
1 Like
Окно Овертона пишется с большой буквы и без e на конце. Потому что это не музыкальный термин, а фамилия чувака, который это окно придумал.
2 Likes
Trade-off – the message singles out recipients who are capable of containing (in the psychotherapeutic sense) the variety of human emotional expression.
I was at the receiving end of Andrew’s unpleasurable, untactful and inconsiderate tone. And so what? He owes me nothing. I like Zig for how I feel programming it and I can separate the person’s vision from the person. I can look past that. I can only be thankful that we have a person with vision and grit like Andrew’s who is also willing to share its results with me, entirely free of charge.
Sterilization of speech is the equivalent to the American smile and hyperbolic approval. I find it ironic that lecturing on the personhood of these anonymous persons who do a shit job (literally what enshittification means – if we can accept this word, then we can accept this) and unable to contain the variety of personhood in others. If someone is incapable of that – I’m only relieved they do not want to have anything to do with me.
This especially holds true when we’re talking about black boxes that corporations are. I think an emotional response to an issue like enshittification, which imo is a real ethical problem (on par with, for example, a road worker and her superiors who take money from the municipalities and do an utter shit job that leaves holes in the road in a few months), is appropriate. We can also put up a performance of empathy towards people who commit other morally questionnable things with “they’re just doing their jobs, they might be good people at heart, so you should never say anything emotionally loaded“. a la this.
Also makes me want to remind of Arendt’s The Banality of Evil, for some reason or other. And how this drama reminds me of reddit.
2 Likes
Thanks, I am not ignorant, just spelling-impaired 
3 Likes
I actually migrated some of my personal projects to codeberg as well.
What a nice surprise.
1 Like
I really appreciate Andrew being true to himself and therefore true to the zig community. Sometimes one might overdo it, and then apologizing is appropriate, but I also want to express what a breath of fresh air it is to read words carrying actual human emotion rather than the tone-deaf sanitized corposlop that overflows most communication channels.
I also stand behind taking these decision for (among others) political reasons. I have seen people expressing displeasure regarding the “politics” of moving away from github. To whoever is willing to listen I say: keeping the status quo would have been exactly as political.
Given the choice between two political outcomes, I am happy to see Andrew and the ZSF having chosen the one not aligning with a for-profit company known to be more than willing to collaborate with ICE.
And to attempt to actually stay on topic: I have been using codeberg for my personal projects for a while. I find it is generally way faster than github (not to mention that github often times fails catastrophically returning 404 or error pages due to “too many requests” such as when simply searching something on github’s very own search bar), and the UI to be vastly more navigable, understandable, and pleasing to the eye.
10 Likes
Yea modern humans hate the truth. Seems like everybody needs layers of sugar coating. Keep it unpleasurable, untactful, and inconsiderable—call the shit for what it is! Maybe more will adapt and evolve into adults lol.
1 Like
I dont think this is the first or even the most idelogical post from Andrew. Remember the post about the techno-optimist manifesto or something like that?
I love these posts but to declare my bias: this ideology aligns with mine. with that said, i see how it could be more strategic to focus on the technical aspects of the steering the zig project in certain directions, for example the practical reasons why GitHub is lacking.
I do think though, that there should be room for a political discussion about this. i dont think it will ever be allowed on this forum. but i think its really neaccesary for programmers and tech-oriented people to also see how the politics of the world affects us and our interests. for example, its really bothers me when people use the term “enshittyfication”. i dare anyone to present resonable argument for why its not simply the mechanics of capitalism. Is it some weird huge coincidence that the all publicly traded for-profit companies change their products and services in the same direction? what force do you think is making microsoft putting ads in the start meny? or apple to lessen the battery-time for their old phones when a new version is launched? find a way to frame that, wich isnt in some way pointing at a fault of capitalism.
anyway, im realising im pushing towards what can be called an inflammatory post, so i will stop. i think it sad though, and i think there should be room for this discussion.
2 Likes
Honestly having read the post a few times now, I think a few things are true here:
- The message was clear, and I think that the majority of people in the zig community, and larger tech community can agree that the centralization of control is getting out of hand, and even more so LLM’s are another vehicle for that just amped up. I don’t think anyone would be complaining if it all was opt in and it was all open source.
- While I personally loved the raw passion, it comes to reason that a lot of others didn’t. I’m okay with pissing people off, I think it’s actually a good tool so the right place and time. But what I will say is, if you were going to go in and do it I would have liked for it to be a complete and utter dunking, with entertaining and insightful shit posting memes included. because tbh it came off like a rant, when really I would have loved to see Andrew really take the time to dive in, explain the why, take a stab, and really flesh it out. Honestly I still want that, I still want to have that blog post go deeper, and I think it could’ve/can be actually a good opportunity to bring others into the fold, give them knowledge, ammunition, the means to walk with their feet as well. I guess I’ll say I wish it emboldened people to come with him and the zig community.
- Andrew does so much and I don’t think relegating Andrew to be a “code” monkey for V1.0 is fair either, anyone who has spent any real amount of time in software knows, the burnout is real, and Andrew has a right to feel the way he feels, I happen to agree with his feelings on the majority of what he said. Andrew has a voice, and he should use it, and we don’t all have to agree. And really I think that is healthy for Andrew and the community to just talk in general. Like I said before, I actually wish that Andrew would have gone harder and made it a clear, well thought out, and decisive dunk. The message would have been received, Andrew has an outlet, and the project becomes healthier hosted somewhere else.
1 Like
I worked in localization at Microsoft for many years, and I can assure you that machine translation has been in regular use for at least a decade, so this is nothing new. The models have gotten far better, and perhaps the main thing that has happened is that cost pressures have drastically reduced how much human post-editing happens.
4 Likes
When we moved to Codeberg with Ziglings two years ago for the reasons you mentioned, I hoped Zig would follow us someday. When you created a Codeberg account, I was sure it would happen. Then I saw the “.woodpecker” directory, and it was clear: Zig will moving to Codeberg.
As a voting member of Codeberg and a huge Zig fan/supporter, I’m incredibly happy and can tell all the remaining skeptics: we’re going to rock this together!
16 Likes
And the people in power will do everything to make sure other people don’t talk to each other
3 Likes
I am not in charge of Zig development, but I can pretty much guarantee 1.0 is not coming next year. It’ll be done when it’s done.
5 Likes
1. anything else > github, good move @andrewrk!
2. flame wars[1], not great but still > dull politically correct white noise. Thanks @matklad!
3. The real reason I post in this already long thread:
Richard Stalman was canceled and Linus Torvald banned maintainers based on their country of origin. By now the vulnerabilities of DNS based communities should be clear for anyone. Website means legal entity registrar => 501 Foundation => COC => corporate takeover. In my eyes every FOSS related post - no matter the subject - should end with a screaming bold and caps look: “Until our p2p distributed repository and associated DAO is ready”, “Until our p2p distributed repository and associated DAO is ready”…
#### **!!UNTIL OUR P2P REPOSITORY AND ASSOCIATED DAO IS READY!!**
Me personally I flinched at ICE mention, not capitalism. As a stalinist I consider importing poor people from abroad in order to keep the local poor in check… “offending”
and supporting this immigration is misguided like most of “progressive” posturing. But that’s just me and this is neither the place nor the format for a constructive debate. ↩︎
4 posts were split to a new topic: What does it mean to hit 1.0
Na, your language and description was fine. No one needs to bend backwards to defend an evil, exploitative system (whether “just” platform capitalism or the whole thing).
I’m very excited Zig is finally off of Github. I don’t use Github for safety, privacy, and ethical reasons and am excited to see people with spines performing actual leadership.
4 Likes
We should just use the original git and self-host it, and make a simple web front end and bug report system written in Zig. Just like the Linux Kernel, GNU, etc., etc..
Using any “git platform”, I mean ANY, against the original purpose of git.
1 Like
“just” is a bit of a load carrying word there, that seems like it would be a big undertaking
2 Likes
It’s just a little bit of undertaking. 